Post by ahayden0022 on Oct 7, 2009 21:04:02 GMT -5
Recently,a chiropractor gave me free x-rays and a consultation. When reviewing the x-rays, he said that I had a reverse curve in my neck and a zero degree atlas bone. I have always suffered from ADD and bad headaches--he said that the atlas bone was probably the cause.
He also told me that he could treat it in 3 sessions a wk for 12 weeks for a total of $1,200.
Is this reasonable/should it cost this much? Do I need the treatment?
What about the on going cost of "maintenance"? Can't believe he didn't tell you about that! If you keep reading some of the other posts on here (even right here in Chiropractic patient questions) you will see that this is just another example of the chiropractic money grab. Don't get taken in! The only relief you will feel (apart from the lighter wallet) is a placebo affect. If you really want to investigate this further, have a healthy friend go in (without the chiropractor's knowledge) for "free x-rays and consultation" maybe complaining about a stiff neck or lower back pain and you will find your friend will need a similar treatment plan.
Post by Copernicus DC on Oct 8, 2009 7:39:07 GMT -5
Chiropractors claiming to treat posture are very similar to upper cervical chiropractors in that they have the false belief that spinal problems or poor posture generally occur first and then other problems (varus foot malformation) occur later. In fact, the founder of chiropractic postural correction, Donald Harrison PhD DC, was an upper cervical chiropractor before he developed postural treatment methods. This tends to be a problem because it leads to never ending treatment.
On the other hand, poor posture and reversed neck curve (or even loss of a curve less than 20 degrees) has been shown to predict future osteoarthritis. and pain.
So I'd recommend starting with a foot examination by a certified pedorthist, then postural evaluation by a physical therapist with certification in orthopedics, then possibly a consultation with a chiropractor certified in chiropractic biomechanics of posture (www.idealspine.com) -in that order. Neck curve restoration will depend on how long it has been there. Some can respond very quickly to just light physical therapy, others require months of traction and exercises.
$1,200 is probably a low estimate to improve a reversed cervical curve with forward head posture. The estimates I've seen show that it generally take at least 6 months of traction in a chiropractic office to accomplish this, often more. Treatment plans usually cost $3,000 plus.
What is this chiropractor's name and address? Let's see where he went to school, what techniques he practices and his level of competence at postural correction. There are a lot of poor DCs because of the lack of standardization by the schools. Posture correction isn't even a required subject.
I was under the impression that the curve (or lack of curve) had very little to do with ones over all health; in this case ADD and headaches. Also, you would be spending thousands and thousands of dollars and have to continually use traction to force the neck into the "perfect" shape. I think the neck would return to it's misaligned form
IIRC, their own studies show that after several months without traction the curve starts to straighten out back to normal. Either way, they will sell maintenance care for the rest of the patients life to make sure that curve stays where it should.
Post by Copernicus DC on Oct 8, 2009 19:16:52 GMT -5
Yes I recall them prescribing lifetime maintenance care. My opinion is that this either indicates that they are not correcting all the underlying problems or that they are unable to stabilize the patient due to the damaged state of the spine.
Dantes can you post that reference showing curve destabilization and reversal after care?
qma, loss of cuve to less than 20 degrees is causative for mechanical neck pain (wish I had the study). I think its from a whiplash follow up study. if anyone has more data please post.
"The real problem (isn't chiropractic but rather) society's tolerance of disproven theory, unsubstantiated claims and unethical professions."
Sorry, couldn't find it. It might be just something I remember them talking about at one of the seminars about instead of a full study. What I remember is that it was a very slight regression, maybe by only a one-half degree per year.
FWIW, I still think CBP's approach, combined with an "chiro"-orthopedic (DACO) focus on core strength and stability could be a very good approach in physical medicine.
Post by Copernicus DC on Oct 11, 2009 0:22:48 GMT -5
It's unfortunate that you couldn't find the study to settle the issue. I agree with you that a hybrid approach would be best. Unfortunately CBP emphasizes a certification model based entirely on their teachings. Further, it supports the ICA, a fanatical group of pro-quackery chiropractic zealots. So naturally the number of CBP chiropractors with crossover training and an objective mindset is very low. The only example I know if is Donald Meyers from Circular Traction. Given that these practitioners are so rare, I recommend that CBP be used as tertiary care after other professionals have been consulted.
nmsdc: In fact did not fail; collected <$2M in 11 years. Paid off >$125k in student loans. Came to realisation (facts) that chiro is pseudoscience, that it is legislated quackery that wastes everyones time and money. DCs scammed my mother and sister, too.
Jun 23, 2014 13:36:10 GMT -5
dochic: Len-get a grip. Get your head out of the chiro bubble and get a reality check. Fast. I have several friends from my graduating class that are on food stamps, medicaid and just struggling to find a job! Chiropractic profession is garbage.
Jun 23, 2014 21:31:51 GMT -5
Chiropractic should be a crime: Just venting. . .I hate chiropractic. It is the most vicious profession out there. SO many good and smart people got sucked into it now living a sad existence. I feel like a Bernie Madoff victim becoming one.
Jun 24, 2014 16:37:48 GMT -5
nmsdc: Sold PI/WC-whore practice, moved to new state, impossible to restart without scamming people with virtually useless treatments for imaginary conditions like all other DCs in this region of chiro-burned healthcare consumers.
Jun 24, 2014 18:14:33 GMT -5
metasin: So I was looking for chiro forums and found this site. So this is where failed chiros come to cry?
Jun 24, 2014 19:58:35 GMT -5
CR Guest: I have a friend who is debating about investing with ML. Seems like ML spews a lot of BS, but appears to make money. Any past investors on here with good/bad experiences? Did you feel cheated? Were you happy?
Jun 25, 2014 9:02:32 GMT -5
Your Conscience: If scamming people doesn't bother you, ML sounds like a good fit.
Jun 25, 2014 15:16:40 GMT -5
Successful DC = cheating DC: Chiropractic should be outlawed. . .like yesterday. I write my legislators to do just that.
Jun 26, 2014 11:28:59 GMT -5
Successful DC = cheating DC: A nurse, a CNA, an EMT. . .all other healthcare workers make more money on average than a typical DC. Chiropractic is a joke! Look up student default rates of healthcare professions. It is an embarrassment & wake up call that chiropractic sucks!
Jun 26, 2014 13:56:16 GMT -5
Sotak: You guys have some issues that have to be fealty with.....
Jun 26, 2014 21:12:58 GMT -5
nock: If chiropractic is such a failure...then why do people feel get better? Its not like the medical industry is setting the world on fire. Diabetes has gone up over 40% and all the leading killers are preventable diseases.
Jun 30, 2014 11:50:50 GMT -5
whatamistake: Nock.... we're not debating that cracking your back feels good or in your words "gets people better". The issue comes back to quack philosophy behind it, and it doesnt matter what the medical industry is doing because they get paid for it and chiros dont.
Jun 30, 2014 12:41:32 GMT -5
nmsdc: Nock, those are irrelevant appeal logical fallacies. Chiropractic is legislated quackery. Chiropractic is pseudoscience. Subluxation is fictitious, like astrology.
Jun 30, 2014 20:16:55 GMT -5
austinholisticdr: As a Chiropractor I simply take the pressure of the nerves and allow the body to heal naturally from within, using my hands.
Jul 12, 2014 20:24:22 GMT -5
science: austinholisticdr..........prove it.
Jul 15, 2014 13:22:31 GMT -5
person: I have had a few concussions, car accidents, played football over a decade ago...and I can say that I was a skeptic of chiropractic until I was adjusted. I had never been to a chiropractor until I got the job as representing a clinic. I had cysts that...
Jul 15, 2014 13:46:54 GMT -5
person: ...doctors couldn't help me get rid of through surgeries and medicine. They always came back. After 7 or 8 adjustments, the cysts have literally gone away. No site of them, and some of these had been there for a solid year....
Jul 15, 2014 13:48:55 GMT -5
person: One cyst in particular was around my belly button and it was releasing puss very frequently. I went to a general doctor, urologist, and a couple of general surgeons and they seriously could not figure out the cause even after my $550 CT scan....
Jul 15, 2014 13:50:42 GMT -5
person: Take it or leave it, but I feel like a new and healthier person for the first time in forever. No stress, more energy, and no more pain. Not to mention the hit and run accident I was a victim of while on my bicycle (hit by a speeding truck)....
Jul 15, 2014 13:52:06 GMT -5
person: I went to Stanford Medical for my facial reconstructive surgery after sliding 20+ feet on my face with my body in a scorpion position and not once did they take an x-ray of my spine to see if there was any damage. Turns out there was a hell of a lot of it!
Jul 15, 2014 13:53:49 GMT -5