Post by ahayden0022 on Oct 7, 2009 21:04:02 GMT -5
Recently,a chiropractor gave me free x-rays and a consultation. When reviewing the x-rays, he said that I had a reverse curve in my neck and a zero degree atlas bone. I have always suffered from ADD and bad headaches--he said that the atlas bone was probably the cause.
He also told me that he could treat it in 3 sessions a wk for 12 weeks for a total of $1,200.
Is this reasonable/should it cost this much? Do I need the treatment?
What about the on going cost of "maintenance"? Can't believe he didn't tell you about that! If you keep reading some of the other posts on here (even right here in Chiropractic patient questions) you will see that this is just another example of the chiropractic money grab. Don't get taken in! The only relief you will feel (apart from the lighter wallet) is a placebo affect. If you really want to investigate this further, have a healthy friend go in (without the chiropractor's knowledge) for "free x-rays and consultation" maybe complaining about a stiff neck or lower back pain and you will find your friend will need a similar treatment plan.
Post by Allen Botnick DC on Oct 8, 2009 7:39:07 GMT -5
Chiropractors claiming to treat posture are very similar to upper cervical chiropractors in that they have the false belief that spinal problems or poor posture generally occur first and then other problems (varus foot malformation) occur later. In fact, the founder of chiropractic postural correction, Donald Harrison PhD DC, was an upper cervical chiropractor before he developed postural treatment methods. This tends to be a problem because it leads to never ending treatment.
On the other hand, poor posture and reversed neck curve (or even loss of a curve less than 20 degrees) has been shown to predict future osteoarthritis. and pain.
So I'd recommend starting with a foot examination by a certified pedorthist, then postural evaluation by a physical therapist with certification in orthopedics, then possibly a consultation with a chiropractor certified in chiropractic biomechanics of posture (www.idealspine.com) -in that order. Neck curve restoration will depend on how long it has been there. Some can respond very quickly to just light physical therapy, others require months of traction and exercises.
$1,200 is probably a low estimate to improve a reversed cervical curve with forward head posture. The estimates I've seen show that it generally take at least 6 months of traction in a chiropractic office to accomplish this, often more. Treatment plans usually cost $3,000 plus.
What is this chiropractor's name and address? Let's see where he went to school, what techniques he practices and his level of competence at postural correction. There are a lot of poor DCs because of the lack of standardization by the schools. Posture correction isn't even a required subject.
I was under the impression that the curve (or lack of curve) had very little to do with ones over all health; in this case ADD and headaches. Also, you would be spending thousands and thousands of dollars and have to continually use traction to force the neck into the "perfect" shape. I think the neck would return to it's misaligned form
IIRC, their own studies show that after several months without traction the curve starts to straighten out back to normal. Either way, they will sell maintenance care for the rest of the patients life to make sure that curve stays where it should.
Post by Allen Botnick DC on Oct 8, 2009 19:16:52 GMT -5
Yes I recall them prescribing lifetime maintenance care. My opinion is that this either indicates that they are not correcting all the underlying problems or that they are unable to stabilize the patient due to the damaged state of the spine.
Dantes can you post that reference showing curve destabilization and reversal after care?
qma, loss of cuve to less than 20 degrees is causative for mechanical neck pain (wish I had the study). I think its from a whiplash follow up study. if anyone has more data please post.
"The real problem (isn't chiropractic but rather) society's tolerance of disproven theory, unsubstantiated claims and unethical professions." -A. Botnick DC.
Sorry, couldn't find it. It might be just something I remember them talking about at one of the seminars about instead of a full study. What I remember is that it was a very slight regression, maybe by only a one-half degree per year.
FWIW, I still think CBP's approach, combined with an "chiro"-orthopedic (DACO) focus on core strength and stability could be a very good approach in physical medicine.
Post by Allen Botnick DC on Oct 11, 2009 0:22:48 GMT -5
It's unfortunate that you couldn't find the study to settle the issue. I agree with you that a hybrid approach would be best. Unfortunately CBP emphasizes a certification model based entirely on their teachings. Further, it supports the ICA, a fanatical group of pro-quackery chiropractic zealots. So naturally the number of CBP chiropractors with crossover training and an objective mindset is very low. The only example I know if is Donald Meyers from Circular Traction. Given that these practitioners are so rare, I recommend that CBP be used as tertiary care after other professionals have been consulted.
Life...: My main point is that you can go to 20 different chiro offices in a given day. Each office will find a problem with you and then adjust you.
Jan 29, 2014 18:25:44 GMT -5
Rock: yes actually no one needs vitamins they need to eat proper food. only if a person has been starving or poisoned by something they suffer from a lack of vitamins. Sad but true. only MDs should be allowed to sell vitamins and after taking blood samples first
Jan 30, 2014 2:21:28 GMT -5
Rock: and there are actually dentists that over treat patients because they got a good insurance. think there was a case in England where a dentists patients (children) had lots more cavity's than other kids.
Jan 30, 2014 2:27:07 GMT -5
Rock: I think there ought to be a law that say that patients should be informed about that they should only go a certain amount of times and if it don't help then stop going. people ought to be treated with respect.
Jan 30, 2014 2:31:44 GMT -5
fairchiro: Some studies are showing that vitamins shorten your life. Most people don't need multi vitamins. My guess is maybe 2 percent of the population should be taking multi vitamins in pill form. However, maybe people in cold climates can use a vitamin D pill.
Jan 30, 2014 15:59:32 GMT -5
fairchiro: Also people who are dieting and taking in very little calories may need a multi vitamin. And of course certain diseases require vitamins.
Jan 30, 2014 16:00:16 GMT -5
Rock: yes there is some illness with the homocysteine getting too high and one got to see a MD to check it out then they give you folic acid and vitamin b6 and b12. I got that illness myself.. but I was starving....I had anorexia.......
Jan 30, 2014 16:55:58 GMT -5
dwight: So i'm newly joined and have a query about a few happenings in which my lower back would extend and my actual maximum height would increase from 3-6 inches. After 2(3?) x-rays it was confirmed that i have mild scoliosis and extraordinary back muscle.
Feb 1, 2014 14:46:41 GMT -5
dwight: I dont know how else to explain what is happening to me but I was advised to get an MRI more than once in order to further dive into the cause or cure for my situation
Feb 1, 2014 14:47:06 GMT -5
dwight: is it possible for something like that to happen? if so, will it become a permanent issue? if not, how can i go about resolving that?
Feb 1, 2014 14:47:30 GMT -5
GoodGolly: I've never seem so much self loathing and inadequacy... What a load of crap. There are MANY DCs who are not subluxation based and THRIVING. Put on your big-girl panties and quit whining.
Feb 13, 2014 8:55:43 GMT -5
GoodGolly: There are problems with our educational processes and unscrupulous docs, but the same can be said for every profession. Your attempts here to disparage an ENTIRE profession say more about you than that profession. Grow up, grow a pair and get to work.
Feb 13, 2014 9:00:07 GMT -5
liedtoo: Sure ill get right to work cracking necks and backs and not getting paid for it. My 3 year old can do the same thing when she jumps off the couch and lands on my back. GoodGolly your still in chiroville, In reality the profession is a joke.
Feb 13, 2014 10:44:57 GMT -5
DHOW: Come on dude stop hating yourself and get busy.
Feb 13, 2014 15:08:09 GMT -5
Tim Whatley: The zealotry of Dr. Botnick paints a picture of a bitter, failed man. It's probably time for him to move on with his life.
Feb 17, 2014 21:44:02 GMT -5
Getreal TIM: Hey Tim, Dr Botnick is trying to actually educate current and future DC's about reality, not the fiction world of subluxations and chiropractic. I appreciate this site greatly and it has provided a lot of good resources, as well as a form of therapy.
Feb 18, 2014 15:38:00 GMT -5
Clunderthoud: Chiropractic certainly does work no matter what the theory, it just sucks as a career.
Feb 22, 2014 2:36:08 GMT -5
Clunderthoud: I now do chiropractic, VOM, and PEMF on horses and dogs after 20 dead-end years in DC practice. Did you know that many successful "horse chiropractors" are ropers, horse-shoers (farriers) cowboys, and journeymen with no DC degree at all?
Feb 22, 2014 3:06:50 GMT -5
Vert Backcracker: Interesting read on Chiropractic (supporters & haters) - keep the venom flowing!
Feb 25, 2014 11:41:43 GMT -5
mtmon: Indeed, education these days is, more often than not, overpriced. Chiros seem to have it better than attorneys tho'. youtube: 'law student(s)"= endless stream of "What did I get myself into?" I wouldn't get into ANY health field in today's times.
Mar 10, 2014 22:34:08 GMT -5