|
 Author | Topic: hey.. i feel like i am a victim anyone (Read 1,738 times) |
bradboyington
New Member
member is offline
![[aim]](http://s2.images.proboards.com/aim.gif "[aim]")
Joined: Feb 2007
Gender: Male 
Posts: 8
|  | hey.. i feel like i am a victim anyone
« Thread Started on Feb 13, 2007, 11:43am » | |
i feel like i was a victim of a fraud/income building scheme.. is this let me know what u think??
I went to a local Chriopratic Clinic just wanting an adjustment. I've never been to one before so i did't know what to expect.. I heard i could go to various cash places but i have insurance so i wanted to take advtange of it.. but. Before i could even be seen he wanted me to do a battery of x-rays. He also wanted to put me on a payment plan since I had a 500 dollar deductable between me and him. I explained numerous times i don't want to reach my plan deductable. I don't need 30 visits. I would only pay for precedures done and only really needed a slight adjustment due to some back disconfort of a pinched nerve. After a battery of x-rays and after he charged me to sit on a roller bed... he asked me to come back.. I was very reluctant.. cause they wanted in cash up front $120 bucks.. 20 for the co pay and 100 towards the deductable.. I paid them. He billed my insurance company $450 for vist 1.. the next day on visit two.. i explained i only wanted an adjustment done and he said i would only pay for the procedueres done.. i explained to them i did't want to reach my deductable.. i did't want to get close to it. they said it would be around 60 bucks for the procedure. i was in the office maybe 20 mins total. the doctor did an adjustment and asked me to go in to the next room before i leave to check my nerves on my feet this process took maybe 5 mins. they billed me for this visit $275 plus $450 for the nerve test. Obviously my insurance does't cover such a test and would never have asked for it. He basicly hid the cost of it and made me think it was part of the exam and made it to be no big deal. what do i do about a chripratic clinic like this.. 2 visits over $1000 this seems to be very extreeme to me? what do u think? is this fraud.. or cause i let him do it to me i should pay for all charges?-
Thanks
Best regards,
| |
|
Marley
Global Moderator
member is offline
![[avatar]](http://star.pst.qub.ac.uk/users/dbj/Funnies/itchy.gif "[avatar]")
Joined: May 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,566
| | Re: hey.. i feel like i am a victim anyone
« Reply #1 on Feb 13, 2007, 2:53pm » | |
Hi bradboyington!
Thank you for joining our forum!
Fortunately, there is something you can do to correct the situation however it may not give you the immediate results you desire. The first thing you need to do is call your health insurance company and ask for the fraud department. Tell them the whole story. Hopefully the insurance company will do an investigation into the chiropractic office and put an end to his scams.
You can also search the Internet for the Office of the Inspector General for your state. Each state has this organization to deal with fraud and insurance scams. Again call them and explain your story.
Please also stop going to the chiro. He is a sick person who obviously doesn't care about you or your health - just your money.
|
Tyler Durden: You are not special. You are not a beautiful or unique snowflake. You're the same decaying organic matter as everything else.
"You may fool all the people some of the time; you can even fool some of the people all the time; but you cant fool all of the people all the time." -Abraham Lincoln
The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
|
|
bradboyington
New Member
member is offline
Joined: Feb 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 8
| | Re: hey.. i feel like i am a victim anyone
« Reply #2 on Feb 13, 2007, 4:07pm » | |
yeah thanks-! i'll doo all of that- im not about to pay them.. so i just want to keep them from trying to collect on me.. I'm only paying for the adjustment which i feel i should pay.. but not for this silly nerve test crap-
| |
|
jackvervacke
New Member
member is offline
Joined: Sept 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 5
| | Re: hey.. i feel like i am a victim anyone
« Reply #3 on Feb 13, 2007, 6:10pm » | |
I think it would be worth complaining to the state board of chiropractic. They have a duty to investigate patient complaints, and the best way to leave this chiro in business doing the same to other people is not to complain!
| |
|
lawman
Full Member
member is offline
Joined: Feb 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 373
Location: midwest
| | Re: hey.. i feel like i am a victim anyone
« Reply #4 on Feb 13, 2007, 6:58pm » | |
I agree with the suggestions by Marley that you contact your Insurance Co. and the State or Federal OIG. Most if not all Insurance Co's require chiropractic treatment to be for a medically necessary treatment. Pain would probably qualify but when he went beyond what your stated needs were he invited a turn down of his claim to your insurance Co. If you inform them that you do not think the bulk of what he did was needed, or wanted, his insurance claim will be denied.
Refuse to pay him. The DC-patient relationship is controlled more by the law of contracts than typical medical-ethical variables. Therefore if you did not "promise" to pay for a service you did not request you have no legal obligation to pay him for gratuitous treatments. Adopt the position, ( if this is the truth) that you did not ask for, did not want , and did not request anything more than "Y" treatment, he gave you "X", and therefore you are not contractually bound to pay him for the value of anything more than whatever "Y" costs.
If he threatens to turn you over to a collection agency, contest the debt under the "Fair Debt Collection Practices Act", and the "Fair Credit Reporting Act" and tell the collectors you dispute the debt, and demand that it not be referenced in your credit history, that they cease calling you or contacting you in anyway , and that they must either sue you right now or go-away and leave you alone, immediately. They will go away 9 out of 10 times for a small debt, especially one that an Insurance Co has declined to pay as uncovered because it was "not necessary", and therefore not under the policy.
You did not say which Insurance Co you had. send me a private message and I just may have more specific advise, the above are just the general thoughts applicable to any number of situations and IS not intended to be tailored to your specific situation. With more facts I might be able to give you more specific pointers.
Then when and if, the DC gets nasty with you , tell him that you intend to consult an attorney: That because he touched you, physically, without your permission (as he exceeded the scope of the authority you gave him), you want to know if he committed a Criminal Battery, or at least a civil tort of the same name and you want damages ($) paid to you because you have been assaulted when he touched you in a manner ( "an adjustment" can be -rigorous?) that you did not consent to or request. If the touching was without authority, it is at the least a misdeameanor in most states. Where did he touch you? How did he adjust you? These things may turn a simple DC visit into a criminal event depending on your jurisdiction.
You should also call your State Attorney General's Office. Ask for the Consumer Protection Division. Tell them this DC is engaged in a "Deceptive Consumer Sales Practice" and descibe what he did and said to you and what he then billed you for. It is clear that "physicians" are subject to the COnsumer Protection Act in most states. there are criminal and civil penalties, that the AG can bring , at no cost to you. He will regret seeing you as a patient after you do these things and he will leave you alone.
Keep us posted?
| |
|
bradboyington
New Member
member is offline
Joined: Feb 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 8
| | Re: hey.. i feel like i am a victim anyone
« Reply #5 on Feb 13, 2007, 11:43pm » | |
yeah i have blue cross blue sheild of oklahoma and this place is located in oklahoma city. my deductable is 500 bucks for chiropratic work.. the insurance covered the first office visit and x-rays i was responsable for about 120 bucks of the $285 plus $450 on those first 2 visits.. the only thing my insurance did not agree to pay was the extra $450 for this nerve test that was not explained to me.. other than as i was getting ready to leave he told me he would like to check my nerves he said it would take like 5 mins. and it did he hooked my feet to a machine that looked like it sold on ebay for 20 bucks it had electrodes on it with various settings of freqs. etc. it was an old looking pos.. heheh.. and the nurse wrote down the readings from the deal when i noticed a feeling from the device. no doctor was present- if u call him a doctor i guess. its just i explained to them soo many times how i only wanted an adjustment and i did't want to spend 500 bucks i told them 100 ish was fine.. and i knew that i would be out of pocket that.. but come on..he presented claims to blue cross from $450 + plus an additonal $450+ +$ 285 for a basic adjustment.. and a crap load of xrays that i never needed.. and some crazy test.. ohh i forgot the deal he stuck in my ear.. and he also charged to take my blood preasure and temp. btw i would have been better off going to a massage parlor or spa and getting a back rub. i was in pain for that day yeah.. but come on.. im 26.. i just lifted some stuff wrong.. and honesty prob would have felt better not going and just putting up with it a few more days.. he treated me like i was a car accident victicm or somthing.. im just really upset about the whole deal.. btw i have made 3 phone calls to the office about how upset i am .. they said they would return my call but refused to. .when i called them out on there charges.. they said . "im not a doctor i can't decide whats good for me " "that its my own personal oppion" etc.. etc.. "and only a doctor knows whats best for me" they fed me a bunch of lies and crap... i guess i'll wait tell they invoice me.. i know they will cause insurance refused to cover it. how i see it i allready paid them 120 bucks.. i'm good to not pay them anymore imo- thanks for all your help.. my e-mail is bradb@clearchannel.com thanks again
| |
|
Nemo
Senior Member
member is offline
![[avatar]](http://www.ccffm.net/braveheart2.jpg "[avatar]")
Nemo me impune lacessit
Joined: May 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,376
Location: CA
| | Re: hey.. i feel like i am a victim anyone
« Reply #6 on Feb 14, 2007, 1:32am » | |
Give me his name and number and I'll take care this sleezeball for you.
|
Chiropractic is as close as you can get to actually living in a cartoon. |
|
drj
Senior Member
member is offline
Joined: Dec 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,092
| | Re: hey.. i feel like i am a victim anyone
« Reply #7 on Feb 14, 2007, 1:19pm » | |
" and the nurse wrote down the readings from the deal ...."
I'm sure she was not real nurse, ie LPN/RN. Chiros can neither afford real nurses nor are they ever necessary in a chiro office.
Lawman, great advice.
|
Any fool can go through life without offending people.
|
|
rulerboyz
Guest
| | Re: hey.. i feel like i am a victim anyone
« Reply #8 on Feb 14, 2007, 4:01pm » | |
Quote:" and the nurse wrote down the readings from the deal ...."
I'm sure she was not real nurse, ie LPN/RN. Chiros can neither afford real nurses nor are they ever necessary in a chiro office.
Lawman, great advice. |
|
I think that Bradboy's perception of the Chiropractic Assistant appearing to look like the chiropractic version of a "nurse" is understandable. Frequently chiropractic assistants will perform any task that the chiropractor does except for the adjustments (since that would be illegal). When the patient witnesses this assistant doing so many things, it's not surprising that they come away thinking that these people must be well trained and well paid. Yet they are certainly not nurses, just as chiropractors are certainly not Doctors in the same sense as Medical Doctors. Medical Doctors do frequently need the assistance of a highly skilled and well paid group of individuals in order to be able to deliver the care they provide patients.
| |
|
bradboyington
New Member
member is offline
Joined: Feb 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 8
| | Re: hey.. i feel like i am a victim anyone
« Reply #9 on Feb 15, 2007, 2:02am » | |
well the Oklahoma State Board of Chiropractic blah blah contacted me by phone today asking for copies of my medical records and xrays they want to open a hearing up on this doctor. thanks for your help guys!!! they where very intrested in why a doctor like this charged over 1200 bucks in two visits....( first visit consultation w/ xrays ) (and 2nd visit the adjustment ) thanks again... they informed me the doctor must give me my medical records so tommorow i will go in person to the office and see if they will give it to me.. they have been reluctant to call me back by phone or talk to me on the phone- law says they must provide my medical records if i ask for them .
| |
|
bradboyington
New Member
member is offline
Joined: Feb 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 8
| | Re: hey.. i feel like i am a victim anyone
« Reply #10 on Feb 15, 2007, 2:02am » | |
ohhh btw- thanks for all your advise in this deal. i'll keep u updated on what happends
| |
|
lawman
Full Member
member is offline
Joined: Feb 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 373
Location: midwest
| | Re: hey.. i feel like i am a victim anyone
« Reply #11 on Feb 15, 2007, 11:29am » | |
Without seeing your records I am betting that you have many , many "subluxations" that this Oklahoma DC just had to treat you for... don't you know that they are "silent killers"?
Don't you know that you could die or end up in a wheel-chair if you do not get life time treatments and check-ups for these horrible subluxations- that you never knew you had , and had never felt any symptoms for? That's why the doctor told you, or his assistant, that ONLY the Chiropractor knew what was best for you, ( and his check book balence).......... Keep us posted on what he put in the travel card regarding your condition and the treatment he gave you.
I would suggest you present yourself ,in person at his office, with a written and dated request for your records, offer to pay the "reasonable costs" for reproducing them, and tell them you will wait while they xerox the records. You never know what can appear in a record if enough time is allowed to doctor the records.
| |
|
bradboyington
New Member
member is offline
Joined: Feb 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 8
| | Re: hey.. i feel like i am a victim anyone
« Reply #12 on Feb 15, 2007, 12:44pm » | |
wow your right.. i better use the element of surprize.. yeah the state said i would have to pay for the copies
thanks-
| |
|
Dean Moyer
New Member
member is offline
![[homepage]](http://s2.images.proboards.com/buttons/www_sm.gif "[homepage]")
Joined: May 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 14
Location: Ozark, Missouri
| | Re: hey.. i feel like i am a victim anyone
« Reply #13 on Feb 15, 2007, 2:51pm » | |
Wow. What an amazing story. Makes you wonder how long this guy has been defrauding people and their insurance companies with this outragious bill padding.
Brad: I hope that you can get this resolved -- not only for your own sake -- but so that the authorities can shut this guy down.
And I know it's slightly off-topic... but the next time you think you need an adjustment... trust me, you don't.
Dean
|
|
|
lawman
Full Member
member is offline
Joined: Feb 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 373
Location: midwest
| | Re: hey.. i feel like i am a victim anyone
« Reply #14 on Feb 15, 2007, 3:43pm » | |
When you return to ask for your records, would you do us a favor? Ask the chiropractor about the machine he used "to check the nerves in your feet"? What was the device called? what "nerves" in your feet was he checking on? Ask him what his diagnosis was, ( of the nerves in your feet)? I would wager he used some type of device that neither the FDA or the FTC have ever approved of . What exactly did this device do? How and who did he bill for this protocol?
| |
|
hayedid
New Member
member is offline
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1
| | Re: hey.. i feel like i am a victim anyone
« Reply #15 on Feb 26, 2007, 10:40pm » | |
I generally don't get on these or register to go on forums, but I have to reply to this one.
Brad,
I'm so sorry this happened to you. I agree with the others about how to fight it, but I did want to recommend you not give up on Chiropracters. I suffer from Fibromyalgia and experience pain on a daily basis. I don't know what I'd do without my chiropracter. I only go 3-4 times a year, but he's simply great. There are also different kinds. I found a good guy who does chiropractic and kinesiology. He works on you for 20 minutes solid for about 47 dollars. He is good with the kinesiology (basically, by using electrical properties of your muscles, he can more easily find where you are out of place -- it sounds odd, but he is good at it). On the other hand, I went to another chiropractic / kinesiologist who made one pop in my neck and did some severely quacky things and I left feeling like they give the field a very bad name.
I would recommend getting a recommendation from a friend as to a good chiropracter. Even then, it might take one or two recommendations to find a good one.
In my life I've probably seen 12 or more various chirpractors. The guy I have now I would drive from out of town to see.
I'll pray for you and I hope you feel better.
God bless you.
Hayedid
| |
|
rulerboyz
Guest
| | Re: hey.. i feel like i am a victim anyone
« Reply #16 on Feb 26, 2007, 11:34pm » | |
Hayedid,
Do you see the dilemma that you've just perfectly illustrated about chiropractors? You've pretty much stated that what makes for a "good chiropractor" is a practitioner who is able to convince you that they are up to snuff based upon your own criteria of what constitutes "chiropractic excellence". And yet, what do you really know about chiropractic, beyond what you've experienced from these various chiropractic offices you have visited. Is it possible that out of the dozen chiros you've seen over the years, you like this particular one the best because:
A. He's the most likeable
B. He doesn't hit your pocket book too hard
C. Pick "C" for Chiropractic
Have you asked yourself why the first chiropractor who does kinesiology delivers a more satisfactory treatment as compared to the second one who adjusted your neck with a "pop".
Could it be that exactly what makes the one chiropractor better than the other, in your mind, is in fact pretty arbitrary? And could it be that your desire to believe this treatment is great, is in fact a large part of what makes it work for you? Could it also be true that a different patient could go to both of those chiropractors and come away with the point of view that is the exact opposite of yours.
In that case he will go recommend all his friends go see that same chiropractor that you thought was "too quacky", while shunning and badmouthing your favorite chiro to all his friends and relatives.
You might say that you would drive 200 miles through a tornado in order to get adjusted by your favorite chiropractor. Yet some other guy could just as easily say that he wouldn't cross the street to go see your chiropractor for free. Why is it that the patient's opinion and testimonial seems to count for so much in the world of chiropractic?
| |
|
conspiracy
New Member
member is offline
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 55
| | Re: hey.. i feel like i am a victim anyone
« Reply #17 on Mar 14, 2007, 4:15pm » | |
This story gives me some satisfaction yet gives me displeasure at the same time. I feel that I evaluate and treat my chiropractic patients as individuals and recommend a plan that gets them back on their feet. For years I have been more displeased in practice by "fellow" chiropractors in town or down the street recommending 40 vists to every patient (pre-pay), as it reflects poorly on ME jst a mile down the road. I have NEVER reccomended that lengthy of a plan in the 9 years I have been in practice.
I am also satisfied that even if Brads story is 50% factual, that the board will get this guy.
For the record, a number of times in practice I have told a patient my recommendations and they wanted "1 adjustment" I told them that my treatment is rarely helpfull at that frequency, and released them from care...and therefore Brad may not have even gotten 1 manipulation under my care with his current "pinched-nerve" mindset. The "nerve test" this doctor provided is a joke for this patients case...unless it was a true "pinched/compressed nerve" and there was demonstrable muscle weakness, and it was a true "nerve conduction velocity" type test. It sound that it may have been a sEMG test at best.
| |
|
chirogoodfraudbad
Guest
| | Re: hey.. i feel like i am a victim anyone
« Reply #18 on Mar 14, 2007, 9:00pm » | |
Great advice lawman.
Brad, contact me directly if you need any personal assistance or if you get any resistance - I was a former insurance company fraud investigator and I still have a few good contacts for jerks like this. I could really open a can of financial whoopass on this guy by outing him through the NHCAA or other national insurance fraud agencies that love to share information like this.
I don't drink the all chiros are bad kool-aid but when one is an obvious crook like this guy, I want to pounce with a vengeance.
| |
|
|
![[Home]](http://s2.images.proboards.com/menu/home.gif "[Home]")
![[New Topics]](http://s2.images.proboards.com/menu/topics.png "[New Topics]")
![[Help]](http://s2.images.proboards.com/menu/help.gif "[Help]")
![[Search]](http://s2.images.proboards.com/menu/search.gif "[Search]")
![[Login]](http://s2.images.proboards.com/menu/login.gif "[Login]")
![[Register]](http://s2.images.proboards.com/menu/register.gif "[Register]")
![[Live Chat]](http://s2.images.proboards.com/menu/chat.gif "[Live Chat]")
![[Search This Thread]](http://s2.images.proboards.com/search2.gif "[Search This Thread]")
![[Send Topic To Friend]](http://s2.images.proboards.com/buttons/sendtopic.gif "[Send Topic To Friend]")
![[Print]](http://s2.images.proboards.com/buttons/print.gif "[Print]")
Logged