Joined: Mar 2004 Gender: Male Posts: 5,841 Location: USA
Re: M.E. Determines Chiropractor Killed Self « Reply #30 on Jun 29, 2006, 11:38pm »
I will admit that as much as I have accomplished, sometimes the stresses can be so overwhelming to make me think of suicide. This is with good counseling and medication.
It is a terrible thing to: 1. Realize that years of your life have been wasted to line some chiropractic college's coffer who misrepresented the true nature of the field. 2. Have to start back at square one, competing with new graduates and digging to find some way to earn a livelihood in a recession. 3. Have to utilize public clinics and charity care for basic health care needs. 4. Have to buy clothes in thrift stores because money is so tight. 5. Worry about explaining vocational problems to dates. 6. Be unable to pay bills and have to deal with collectors. 7. Have to settle for a job below your abilities just to pay the bills. 8. Look at a $150,000 student loan debt and wonder if it will ever be resolved. 9. Give up the dream of impressing a mate with strong earning power. 10. Have to face the scorn and rejection from unsympathetic family and former friends.
What keeps me going now are my dreams. 1. To see if the Borrower's Defense will work. 2. To see if my medical device will work. 3. Because my friends would miss me if I weren't here. 4. Because I helped many students not make the same mistake by warning them.
I am lucky that I have friends and family who have assisted me financially to keep these dreams alive. If it were not for them I could not have survived this far.
So I do completely understand the plight of the chiropractic suicides. No doubt there is a level in Dante's Hell for chiropractic leaders who ruin the lives of students by misrepresenting quackery as a growing, legitimate health care profession.
"I believe all suffering is caused by ignorance. People inflict pain on others in the selfish pursuit of their happiness or satisfaction..." -Dalai Lama
"In God we trust, all others bring data" -W. Edwards Deming
Joined: Feb 2006 Gender: Male Posts: 372 Location: midwest
Re: M.E. Determines Chiropractor Killed Self « Reply #31 on Jun 30, 2006, 12:23pm »
For the bill collectors who call after the BK filing, tell them you have filed a BK and if they call you EVER again you will report them to the BK Trustee and ask for Sanctions. The creditors will stop. Also for those who have not /cannot file a BK, Tell the debt collector callers to stop calling you on the phone, contact you by mail only , give them your address if they do not have it, and quote the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act when you tell them you do not want any more phone calls . I bet the phone calls will stop. Letters you can deal with on your time , are less embarrassing, and the collection agency's do not like to write letters if they can phone nag you.
Re: M.E. Determines Chiropractor Killed Self « Reply #32 on Jun 30, 2006, 11:18pm »
Quote:
Every once in a while I will want to approach a woman...then I remind myself about the BK, the $100k + debt, the lack of a decent job....and just don't.
Quote:
It's really sad that we live in a society where it's often only the people who have something really successful going on in their lives who get all the bragging rights.
Maybe this is a strange blessing in a way, because I think it would be equally bad to get a lot of attention simply because one is a "doctor" or financially successfully.
I'll not mince words here: from my experience, it attracts the golddiggers!
The other problem with being a chiropractic "doctor" is that you often can't fulfill the expectations that go along with being a "doctor".
My wife married a "doctor" and got a guy who worked 7 days a week (mostly doing spinal screenings on Sunday and after work), had 200k worth of debt and no health insurance, could barely pay the rent, and would fall asleep at the dinner table after being home for only five minutes because he was so exhausted. What a great relationship / lifestyle that was!
Personally, I wouldn't worry about telling someone your whole financial history if you are just dating casually. It's irrelevant unless you are borrowing money from them. If things get more serious, you should give details of financial problems. But anyone who would reject you based simply on this is not worth wasting your time with.
To me, it's a simple way to screen potential longterm partners to find out of they really have love in their heart -- or just dollar signs in their eyes!!
>But anyone who would reject you based simply on this is not worth wasting your time with.
I think this is a little harsh and unrealistic. It depends on where the woman is in life and what they want to accomplish. If someone is struggling in a low paying field then marrying into more financial problems doesn't make sense. Even more if they want to have children. I don't know what your goals are but it might make more sense to join a dating service where you can target higher income women where this would be less important than other qualities such as how good of a partner you are.
"I believe all suffering is caused by ignorance. People inflict pain on others in the selfish pursuit of their happiness or satisfaction..." -Dalai Lama
"In God we trust, all others bring data" -W. Edwards Deming
I think this is a little harsh and unrealistic. It depends on where the woman is in life and what they want to accomplish. If someone is struggling in a low paying field then marrying into more financial problems doesn't make sense.
Maybe you're right. I guess I was just trying to look at a bad situation from another perspective. If one has 100K in debt, he can almost guarantee not attracting potential partners who are only interested in money. And maybe that's a good thing sometimes.
My marriage isn't perfect, but I can say one thing with absolute certainty: my wife hasn't stayed with me for my money (I don't have any).
I can also rule out good looks, so it must be my charm.
I think Nemo wasn't just talking about finding soul mates, but is also including casual dating in which the company of superficial yet attractive women is more than welcome.
On the one hand it is what inside that really matters. In the real world however you do need to devote some attention to the more superficial gimmicks in order to score with the ladies.
On the one hand it is what inside that really matters. In the real world however you do need to devote some attention to the more superficial gimmicks in order to score with the ladies.
"So is this your first time at the Parker Convention? Yeah, I closed my office in Arkansas for the weekend to attend this... don't worry though, I've got a waiting list practice....."
Re: M.E. Determines Chiropractor Killed Self « Reply #37 on Nov 26, 2008, 12:06am »
<<As for the DPT program, my second patient is taking community college classes locally in order to obtain the necessary pre-reqs to start the DPT program at Oakland University in the fall. As his parents are footing the bill, and since he lives at home, I don't think he'd be willing or able to move to another state now. I believe he'll succeed in that program as he is a smart kid. What amazes me is that the school he's applying to does not consider the DC degree to be a graduate or professional degree and will not transfer all or most of his classes. How is it that most schools won't consider the DC degree a graduate or professional degree? Apparently, he applied for a job to teach biology/anatomy at another community college and they offered him an adjunct position at the master's level pay; they would not consider the DC to be a doctorate like an MD, PhD, JD, DVM, PharmD, DDS, etc.>>
Alan, I do have a question about this: Zack raised the point of the DC degree not being recognized at a University. Forgive the ignorance, but isn't that tantamount to fraud? Meaning that the DC program granted a degree that is not recognized by the University setting even though (one would assume) that the DC program was approved by the DOE to grant a professional doctoral? Could that be grounds for a lawsuit or, at the very least, reasons for a student loan defense?
Re: M.E. Determines Chiropractor Killed Self « Reply #38 on Nov 26, 2008, 3:58pm »
I have asked this question on another thread. At the college I teach, we were not allowed to hire chiros because they did not have the requisite master's degree, even though their resume proudly proclaimed that they had a doctorate. (Most applicants had no experience outside of the classroom, either as a chiro or as a lab assistant.)
Re: M.E. Determines Chiropractor Killed Self « Reply #39 on Nov 26, 2008, 7:00pm »
You mean rotgut that the guy who taught us PT at Logan, and just graduated a tri earlier, was not qualified?!! Oh, I forgot about all the other 'DC's' who taught us medical diagnosis by reading canned notes were probably not qualified either.
Next year I will have been out of there 15 years. I am going back and demanding my money back from George Goodman, anybody care to give me odds of getting any money back?!!!
I did however diagnose prostate cancer in an older man once and sent him immediately to his PCP, (on X-ray, his L3 was as white as could be and he complained of urinary symptoms). In retrospect, it is instances like this that give chiro's a false sense of complete care, exactly what the schools want I suppose.
Joined: Mar 2004 Gender: Male Posts: 5,841 Location: USA
Re: M.E. Determines Chiropractor Killed Self « Reply #40 on Nov 27, 2008, 10:24am »
It’s not necessarily fraud rankola. Fraud requires intentional deception, if it was done by mistake it wouldn’t be (but might be negligence if the promise was made). Moreso, aside from the intent there needs to be a promise that the coursework would be recognized by non chiropractic institutions and damages that result. It seems to me that they would be reluctant to include this in an admission bulletin so the promise might never have been made. Only if the promise was made and there were damages incurred would the party be liable (given no violation of the statute of limitations).
Please note-this is my understanding and I am not a lawyer so please consult with one should you need legal advice.
Rankola>Alan, I do have a question about this: Zack raised the point of the DC degree not being recognized at a University. Forgive the ignorance, but isn't that tantamount to fraud? Meaning that the DC program granted a degree that is not recognized by the University setting even though (one would assume) that the DC program was approved by the DOE to grant a professional doctoral? Could that be grounds for a lawsuit or, at the very least, reasons for a student loan defense?
"I believe all suffering is caused by ignorance. People inflict pain on others in the selfish pursuit of their happiness or satisfaction..." -Dalai Lama
"In God we trust, all others bring data" -W. Edwards Deming
Re: M.E. Determines Chiropractor Killed Self « Reply #41 on Dec 15, 2008, 2:20pm »
After 30 years in the profession the word chiropractor still defines what I did, but NEVER who I was. To blame a suicide on the stress of being a chiropractor is quite a stretch and does a disservice to the young woman and diminishes the value of her life down to a single word "chiropractor". She was a person that killed herself. None of us on this site know why and to speculate for the sake of somehow validating this site is sick.
Joined: Mar 2004 Gender: Male Posts: 5,841 Location: USA
Re: M.E. Determines Chiropractor Killed Self « Reply #42 on Dec 15, 2008, 4:02pm »
Well suicide is attributed to the stress of dentistry all the time. Given the stress of a declining chiropractic practice I don't see it being that difficult to extrapolate that a chiropractor might kill themself. In her case she apparently went to an abandoned building and shot herself in the head, perhaps not to alarm her family. Most suicide victims are depressed.
No need for total specultation, from the looks of this report, she was struggling financially with kids and a husband to support-a common complaint nowadays. There is no way someone can pay their student loans and maintain practice overhead on $50,000 per year.
Superville Chiropractic Clinic (Superville Chiropractic) 2065 Harland Dr Ste I, Houston, TX 77055-1823
Company Name: Superville Chiropractic ClinicIs This Your Company? Address: 2065 Harland Dr Ste I, Houston, TX 77055-1823 (Map) Alt Business Name: Superville Chiropractic Location Type: Single Location Est. Annual Sales: $50,000 Est. # of Employees: 2 Est. Empl. at Loc.: 2 Year Started: 1998 State of Incorp: SIC #Code: 8041 Contact's Name: Melinda M Superville Contact's Title: Owner NAICS: Offices of Chiropractors
"I believe all suffering is caused by ignorance. People inflict pain on others in the selfish pursuit of their happiness or satisfaction..." -Dalai Lama
"In God we trust, all others bring data" -W. Edwards Deming
rulerboyz Guest
Re: M.E. Determines Chiropractor Killed Self « Reply #43 on Dec 15, 2008, 6:59pm »
The following 1922 news article from The New York Times describes the apparent suicide of a chiropractor:
We tend to only consider the anguish and suffering of those from our present time. Yet there is little doubt that life as a chiropractor in the early 20th century had the potential to be very difficult. We also obviously only think about current attrition rates. I would suspect that on a percentage basis, just as many people were quititng the profession in those early days as they are today, especially given that the overall cost/investment of becoming a chiropractor was so much less back then. It made it that much easier to walk away from this train wreck of a career.
"I believe all suffering is caused by ignorance. People inflict pain on others in the selfish pursuit of their happiness or satisfaction..." -Dalai Lama
"In God we trust, all others bring data" -W. Edwards Deming
Re: M.E. Determines Chiropractor Killed Self « Reply #45 on Aug 10, 2009, 3:03pm »
Having failed numerous times at getting my practice off the ground, filing for bankruptcy, almost losing my wife, in debt for $125,000, losing whatever self esteem I have left; I can completely understand the feeling of just wanting to check out for good. I hope anyone going through this will find the strength to let go and the hope and vision to move forward. Many have taken a large risk in life, failed miserably, picked themselves up and moved on to great success. I think this is a very common story. I feel a great sense of peace and joy in just getting out of chiropractic and excited about forging a new path. For those considering this as a career choice, please contemplate deeply about why you want to enter this profession. If it is your passion and all you want to do is eat, sleep an breath chiropractic, the follow your bliss. If your doing this because you think, or rather you were told it is a great career path, then I suggest you run and never look back
Joined: Mar 2004 Gender: Male Posts: 5,841 Location: USA
Re: M.E. Determines Chiropractor Killed Self « Reply #46 on Aug 29, 2009, 10:59am »
>If it is your passion and all you want to do is eat, sleep an breath chiropractic, the follow your bliss
Given that the majority of chiropractic schools are using false or misleading adversiting it is safe to assume that even those prospects who believe they are right for chiropractic are most likely misinformed regarding at least some of their beliefs. My point being that it is a bad idea to be conned into a career.
"I believe all suffering is caused by ignorance. People inflict pain on others in the selfish pursuit of their happiness or satisfaction..." -Dalai Lama
"In God we trust, all others bring data" -W. Edwards Deming
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