Chirotalk: The Skeptical Chiropractic Discussion Forum - Advice need for newbie

superjupiter7
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Advice need for newbie - vertebrae, back, neck
« Thread Started on Jul 25, 2011, 8:59pm »

i went to a chiropractor today that was having a promotion for a discounted 1 hour massage (which was good) and a free xray chiropractic evaluation. i really just went for the massage. in the xray it showed my neck vertebrae as straight rather than curved, and 4 vertebrae in my back that were out of alignment pinching a nerve or something to that effect. i have no pain whatsover in my neck or back. the doc says i should get these things fixed before any problems arise and should in come for treatment twice a week for 3 weeks then look at xrays again. i also mentioned that i had testicular cancer a year ago and he said it was probably caused by the nerve signals from the brain getting blocked or something, which sounds a little crazy if you ask me. anyways i wouldnt mind going for a few weeks if my insurance covers it but should i even do it at all? maybe everyone has things out of alignment and it shouldnt be corrected at all and it will just cause issues that i dont even have now. i also dont want to go for a few weeks and correct the issues and then have to go back after that to maintain it. advice???

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Allen Botnick DC
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Re: Advice need for newbie - vertebrae, back, neck
« Reply #1 on Jul 25, 2011, 9:11pm »

You can't diagnose nerve interference by xray. How does he propose to increase your neck curve? If he isn't using extension traction and mirror image exercise it won't work.

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Re: Advice need for newbie - vertebrae, back, neck
« Reply #2 on Jul 25, 2011, 10:39pm »

stick with the massage

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synaptic
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Re: Advice need for newbie - vertebrae, back, neck
« Reply #3 on Jul 25, 2011, 11:52pm »

I always find it appalling when someone gets exposed to ionizing radiation for no reason other than "screening" for misaligned vertebrae. Even when I was a true believer in chiropractic, I could never justify doing this to anyone. Virtually no one has a perfect spine, so the chances are nearly 100% that the chiropractor will find something wrong with your spine on an x-ray.

As for your straight neck and misaligned vertebrae, the truth is that your spine probably looks like those of most people your age. And besides, the x-ray is meaningless without an exam. Your chiropractor cannot tell you that you have misaligned vertebrae in your back without doing a physical exam and actually touching your spine.

Also, taking an x-ray on someone before conducting a proper history and physical is just bad practice. In chiropractic school, they teach students that they must do things in the right order. This means that you start with the history, then you do a physical exam, and then, if necessary you may take x-rays. This guy is doing things backwards. Why? Perhaps because this is the fastest way to convince you that your spine is jacked up and you need lots of chiropractic care.

Anytime a doctor performs a procedure or intervention, such as taking an x-ray or providing chiropractic care, the benefits must outweigh the risks. In your case, what are the benefits? To feel better? You're not in pain, so this can't be it. To change the shape of your spine? Perhaps, but there is no evidence (that I am aware of) that having an ideally shaped spine will prevent disease. Now let's move on to the risks... you've already been exposed to ionizing radiation. Although small, the risk of radiation is that it can potentially cause cancer. Now, the risk of this may be so small that you really don't need to worry about it, but still, the fact that you were exposed to radiation without any reason concerns me. Next, what are the risks of receiving chiropractic care? The most common risk is experiencing an increase in pain. Since you are currently asymptomatic, there are really only two possible outcomes of getting adjusted: you can either stay the same (remain asymptomatic), or you can start feeling sore. Another common risk with frequent adjustments is the development of ligament laxity; this means your spine will become somewhat "loose" and you may begin to feel like your spine constantly needs to get adjusted. Other, less common risks include things like fractures and stroke. In my opinion, the benefits of chiropractic intervention in your case do not outweigh the risks involved.

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superjupiter7
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Re: Advice need for newbie - vertebrae, back, neck
« Reply #4 on Jul 26, 2011, 11:28am »

thanks for all your responses. honestly the whole thing did feel like meeting up with a cheesy used car salesman. in terms of the xray it was weird because he basically had me stand in front of this wall mounted board/surface facing forward and then to the side, then left the room and came back with 2 xray films which he compared to others that showed "correct alignment". he didn't even say he was taking xrays or what he was doing, just to stand there, and there was no protective vest or anything like in any other xray I've ever had. was it maybe not an actual xray but something else?? the films looked like xrays and i assumed they were but i dont know. i thought he was legit because of his credentials and high profile and billing as "chiropractor to the celebrities" though i know thats not necessarily a valid reason. (notice it doesnt say any of these celebrities are actual patients: http://www.chirotime.com/t2/document/1celebrities ) anyone know of him or his practice? thank you.

« Last Edit: Jul 26, 2011, 3:50pm by presto »

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presto
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Re: Advice need for newbie - vertebrae, back, neck
« Reply #5 on Jul 26, 2011, 4:16pm »

I do recall a chiropractor giving a speech at Life U once, and he said that Billy Joel and Christie Brinkley had been his patients at one point. So it might be this guy. He definitely did sound very enthusiastic.

The thing I find concerning about celebrity endorsements of chiropractic, which in this case might simply mean having your picture taken with a particular celebrity:

the celebrity in question probably doesn't really understand what they are endorsing.

« Last Edit: Jul 26, 2011, 4:17pm by presto »

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Re: Advice need for newbie - vertebrae, back, neck
« Reply #6 on Jul 26, 2011, 5:16pm »

Very cheesy. New York Chiropractic College is known as a mixer school which is more medically oriented however the DCs affiliation with the woman DC from Life University, mentioning "Kids Day America" and the medical scare articles give a strong indication that he has veered towards high volume quackery practice.

Dentists use lead vests to shield the body from radiation. When someone gets a spinal xray you can't use it as it would prevent the film from being exposed. However, often times when chiropractors order these films they aren't clinically warranted and just end up exposing patients to high levels of radiation for nothing.

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Re: Advice need for newbie - vertebrae, back, neck
« Reply #7 on Jul 26, 2011, 7:59pm »

Jul 25, 2011, 8:59pm, superjupiter7 wrote:

i also mentioned that i had testicular cancer a year ago and he said it was probably caused by the nerve signals from the brain getting blocked or something, which sounds a little crazy if you ask me.

Most of this encounter is the usual chiro marketing approach, but this right here is what scares me. I cannot count how many times I have had to calm people down after being scared out of their wits by a chiro (or more usually, some interns the chiro has hired to do his dirty work) that tells them they are going to get cancer if they don't come in and get adjusted. Not exactly what he told you, but it's not a great leap from there to here. If you were a family member of mine I would tell you to never go back.

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sarah
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Re: Advice need for newbie - vertebrae, back, neck
« Reply #8 on Apr 4, 2012, 6:31am »

If you are not having any problem then you need not to go there.

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chiroreform
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Re: Advice need for newbie - vertebrae, back, neck
« Reply #9 on Apr 4, 2012, 11:29am »

Apr 4, 2012, 6:31am, sarah wrote:

If you are not having any problem then you need not to go there.

The onset of symptoms does not indicate when there is a problem, as many processes are "silent" until the damage is done. It is good to get regular physicals and see whatever healthcare professional you feel comfortable in doing so. Prevention is the best cure.

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Re: Advice need for newbie - vertebrae, back, neck
« Reply #10 on Apr 4, 2012, 11:59am »

Just don't trust a chiropractor since they use bogus assessments to tell everyone they need care.

« Last Edit: Apr 4, 2012, 11:59am by Allen Botnick DC »

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Re: Advice need for newbie - vertebrae, back, neck
« Reply #11 on Apr 4, 2012, 4:00pm »

As Arnold once said... "It's not a tumor!"

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Re: Advice need for newbie - vertebrae, back, neck
« Reply #12 on Apr 4, 2012, 9:15pm »

Jul 25, 2011, 11:52pm, synaptic wrote:

I always find it appalling when someone gets exposed to ionizing radiation for no reason other than "screening" for misaligned vertebrae. Even when I was a true believer in chiropractic, I could never justify doing this to anyone. Virtually no one has a perfect spine, so the chances are nearly 100% that the chiropractor will find something wrong with your spine on an x-ray.

As for your straight neck and misaligned vertebrae, the truth is that your spine probably looks like those of most people your age. And besides, the x-ray is meaningless without an exam. Your chiropractor cannot tell you that you have misaligned vertebrae in your back without doing a physical exam and actually touching your spine.

Also, taking an x-ray on someone before conducting a proper history and physical is just bad practice. In chiropractic school, they teach students that they must do things in the right order. This means that you start with the history, then you do a physical exam, and then, if necessary you may take x-rays. This guy is doing things backwards. Why? Perhaps because this is the fastest way to convince you that your spine is jacked up and you need lots of chiropractic care.

Anytime a doctor performs a procedure or intervention, such as taking an x-ray or providing chiropractic care, the benefits must outweigh the risks. In your case, what are the benefits? To feel better? You're not in pain, so this can't be it. To change the shape of your spine? Perhaps, but there is no evidence (that I am aware of) that having an ideally shaped spine will prevent disease. Now let's move on to the risks... you've already been exposed to ionizing radiation. Although small, the risk of radiation is that it can potentially cause cancer. Now, the risk of this may be so small that you really don't need to worry about it, but still, the fact that you were exposed to radiation without any reason concerns me. Next, what are the risks of receiving chiropractic care? The most common risk is experiencing an increase in pain. Since you are currently asymptomatic, there are really only two possible outcomes of getting adjusted: you can either stay the same (remain asymptomatic), or you can start feeling sore. Another common risk with frequent adjustments is the development of ligament laxity; this means your spine will become somewhat "loose" and you may begin to feel like your spine constantly needs to get adjusted. Other, less common risks include things like fractures and stroke. In my opinion, the benefits of chiropractic intervention in your case do not outweigh the risks involved.

Sound advice.

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Wait a minute...pain is irrelevant???