"One who condones evils is just as guiltyas the ones who perpetuate it." Martin Luther King, Jr.
Joined: Feb 2005 Gender: Male Posts: 540
Re: Purpose! « Reply #30 on Oct 14, 2009, 10:39am »
Help1...I'm not sure if you intentionally or unintentionally missed the point. Subluxations are non-existent (have no evidence basis for their existence, as well as there is no scientifically recognizable studies that have confirmed them (subluxations) to be the cause of bodily disorders. (dis-ease) The claim of the Chiropractic World. That being said...lets proceed. A. Chiropractic is not a treatment for aches and pains...(Michigan Law as well as other states that define Chiropractic as a service for improving health)...no where in these laws does it define chiropractic to be for what 99.9% of all people who initially seek the services of a chiro...which is for treatment for some ache or pain, not to see if they are subluxated...which the chiros in these states, to be paid by third party payers must find in their examination, subluxations, to not only be able to provide care legally, but will have to report these subluxations to be causative or contributing to their patients symptoms or conditions. (The patient came not to see if they are subluxated...the unscientific reason or cause upon upon which chiro is based for why people are hurting, sick and ailing) So chiros in these states must find a subluxation in these patients and connect this to the reason for why their patient have these problems...simply put...report these subluxations as the cause of their patients condition or symptoms and describe the service to help their patient by listing specific vertebra they say are subluxated.) These laws not only do not mention chiropractic to be for that (aches, pains or conditions...which is what the publics perception of chiro is and why they would go to one...if asked why they chose to visit a chiro and what they believed they were for?) They define it to be for something else...location and correction of subluxation. A condition that cannot be scientifically identified to exist...a condition that not only cannot be identified to exist...a condition that cannot be measured in such a way that not only can it not be scientifically measured to exist... it cannot be scientifically measured to have been effectually changed which would prove not only that it was/was not the cause of the patients condition but would be a measure for the chiro to be able to verify he was succeeding/not succeeding at what he did by adjusting subluxations. That is what chiro is...and it is by that defining; by that explanation the very basis for the vast majority of chiropractors service...spinal manipulation. Now...if the law in Kentucky which I have not seen myself allows you to provide what you do...well that is not chiro...that is therapeutics...which is what medicine is...therapeutics. Therapeutics by law is medicine and chiros because of their education, when they become licensed will not be able to provide medical services...therapeutics...because they would be practicing medicine WITHOUT A MEDICAL LICENSE...apparently you can practice therapeutics in Kentucky as a chiro? Well...in Nevada it is legal to engage in prostitution...does that make prostitution acceptable? To some it does, to others they could care less they will do it anyway...but to some, it is wrong and it is still wrong even if it is made legal. I'll let you answer that yourself. As for those who post here...cry babies and all the other adjectives you use...failures, so forth and so on (character assassination is what you counter with)...because they have chosen to walk an honest line...well you can see this will not matter to those who have no moral code, who have no internal anchor for truth and justice; right and wrong. But for me...I cannot speak for all the others here who have left the profession or the reason they did...but for me...to be a chiropractor required me to lie...if I ignored the absence of scientific verification regarding subluxations and all the chiropractic world would have the world to believe they were and what they did...if I accepted this I would be playing God...science enables men and women to be accountable...and for me to be accountable for what I said to patients which I believe I am...then if what I am telling them is the cause of their problem and I cannot prove it...by what authority do I base that on and what am I actually doing when I present these "so called facts" that are not provable?
By the same token...if someone says something is true about God and what He says...and asked...where did you see that? If it cannot be found in Gods Word...to those who believe the Bible is the Word of God...it didn't come from God...and no matter how sincere he may be or no matter how much the masses may like what they are hearing...one day he will have to stand before God...be accountable...as we all will...and those who presented things as true that are not true...are described as liars...and that is something I engaged in unknowingly...and I am glad I no longer do that. Just as a car salesman would be doing if he said the car was tested and found to be in good operating condition and the customer believed him...but he never checked the engine...he lied to the customer but the customer doesn't know that...but the sales man and God know he lied...So patients do not know about subluxations and laws that regulate what we can and cannot do...what subluxations are and what they can cause and why they are found to be unscientific and all that...but chiros do or should know...so when they tell their patients certain things they would have their patients believe are true...the chiro knows they are not...but the patient doesn't...so fraud and deceit will be a tool that those with higher education will be able to impose over others who do not know these things are not true or factual...but they perpetrator does and so does God...and for those who have found the unsuspecting public to be easy to fool...they are dumb and naive? For me...that makes me shutter to believe I believed these lies.
So just because some can redefine chiropractic...and by so doing do it acceptably. That one I'll leave for God to decide. For me I engaged in fraud...and because I believed it...patients believed me..and because they believed me...I believe that is why some were helped. But I didn't know then that I was not changing spines or actually removing nerve pressure...I believed I was and that was why I could do it...but just because I believed it...didn't make me innocent.
Now that is the faith upon which Christianity is based...that forgiveness is available through Jesus and what He did...and made it possible for these sins to be forgiven because His Blood paid the debt of sin and FAITH in THIS TRUTH provides this blessing. So while you may not agree with me about anything I have said or that telling people they have subluxations and these are the cause of their problems...that this is lying to people...or that the Bible is the Word of God...that choice is yours. But whatever choice you make...truth is not made by man...In America man/women have been given the opportunity to freely chose what they believe about God...some will chose to believe there is no God, some will chose to believe another faith other than Christianity...but if Jesus Christ is Gods Son as His Word says He is and FAITH in Him is the only way to be saved...and His Word tells us what is in store for liars as well as other types of behaviors Gods Word tells us we are to put away from our lives...if His Word is what it says it is...THE TRUTH...then those who chose other belief's have bought into a lie. That to me is good reason to leave...for to me and what I was doing when I practiced chiro...I was lying to people...people who came to me for help...and because I carried the title of doctor...they trusted me to have knowledge that would enable them to put their life in my hands...that is what trust provides...and here I had been telling people things that were not scientifically substantiated...presenting it to them as factual as the germ theory as the cause of disease? WOW...I believed all that I was taught about what a chiropractor did; what chiropractic was for; subluxations; nerve impingment...etc., etc., etc. That we released the power within the patients body when we adjusted and this power or God within people was what healed them...all of this...and while I could not prove it...I did not even stop to question if what I believed was true about subluxations could or could not be proven...but one thing for sure...I believed like so many chiros do that we as chiros are the good guys because we correct causes, we do not treat effects and cover up the cause like medicine...thus we are the ones God is pleased with? WOW All that medicine does for humanity and we are the good guys? Well God will have the last say...but for those who do not know God...he is FAIR and His will... He has made known...in His Word...so there will be no surprise when we stand before Him...and if we chose to not to believe it is not His Word or there is another religion or religion is for babies...whatever...there is truth and there are lies and it is for each of us to decide what we accept as true and what we see to be a lie. In America we have that freedom to make the choice...what we wish to believe is true about God and life after death...and what happens then...so this is what I believe...but as for what is true when it comes to things men say are facts and they pertain to this life...we look to science...and when they confirm things are factual...these are things that can be proven. And that is the authority all doctors are expected to base their decisions on...not their beliefs...and because of this...there are many times a medical doctor hurts because he cannot help a patient...and maybe there are times he wished he could be like those chiros...who have no science...but people are helped...or those who look to other beliefs for help...who supposedly find help by "faith" in God...such as Christian Science and other religions. While I do not know if some feel this way...the vast majority of those who get sick or injured are helped by medical means...and with all they do...there are still many problems that they still cannot help. And they unlike the chiros are able to acquire objective evidence to look to, to determine what is wrong and what to do...and based upon this foundation...scientific evidence...or the lack of it...will come their diagnosis...and whether it is what the patient wants to hear or not hear...the evidence determines what they must report to the patient. And these reports are at times very difficult...both for the patient to hear and for the doctors to give. So...is there a better way? Well for those who ply on the patients who do not want to take drugs or who do not want to be operated on...chiropractic has made a fortune off these types.
I believe there is a time when we will all be accountable for what we say and do...and that time according to what I believe is the truth regarding "the purpose of life" which is found in the Bible...the Word of God...each one of us will hear what God says about us and what he says is true or not true. What are lies and what are not lies. Nor what man says is true but what he says is true...and for chiros who refuse to see that what they are saying and doing is not scientifically proven or say it is because they have erected their own basis for saying something they do is scientific...because they do realize the value of science...so they say they are science centered chiros? God will have the last say there also. I am not the judge. But by going to His Word with my heart wide open...I know for me...I had believed a lie and by turning from that lie...and the peace it provide me by so doing...there is no amount of money or popularity I would give in exchange for the blessing I receive as I can now walk in His Word...believing it is the truth that it says it is...by faith... and not experience the condemnation that did arise when I was subluxation/cause of dis-ease heart oriented.
Joined: Mar 2004 Gender: Male Posts: 5,896 Location: USA
Re: Purpose! « Reply #31 on Oct 14, 2009, 7:43pm »
You're welcome. I always envisioned this site to be a sort of skeleton closet for chiropractic. We have saved quite a few students already (for what its worth).
"I believe all suffering is caused by ignorance. People inflict pain on others in the selfish pursuit of their happiness or satisfaction..." -Dalai Lama
"In God we trust, all others bring data" -W. Edwards Deming
Re: Purpose! « Reply #32 on Oct 19, 2009, 12:26am »
help1
I get tired of chiros propping the idea that only natural born losers fail at the chiro scam or that lack of profit is the only motivation to leave. for all the folks considering a chiro departure, let me say that it is the best decision of my life. Life practicing real medicine, where the stakes are higher and I have a hope of curing something besides simple mechanical pain is immensely rewarding.
the idea that only unhappy, weak minded loser leave chiro is crap. I graduated pi zappa crappa from chiro school, earned well into the six figures the last 3 years of practice, worked as team chiro for the local college and pro sports teams owned my own shop, was an 'expert witness' for several ime groups, had multiple md referral sources..... All the stuff that I thought comprised success. At the tip top of the chiro world I wasn't happy. I knew what I was and where chiro is heading. The end of the line is close for any chiro with a soul or a capacity for critical thought. I could never sell the chiro religion bs. I tried my first summer out of school.....worst time of my life! May God forgive the lies I told that summer. I truly thought the older chiros really knew something I didn't. Fake it till you make it, you know. my first year in medicine has been one of the best of the 35 now under the belt. now is the right time for anyone to leave chiro. on another topic, who ever said thatphysical therapists are any better than the ave chiro slimeball? It should come as no surprise that pts interest in manipulation as a modality increased as their access to reimbursement for manipulation increased. From what I've seen, outpatient is about as helpful and necessary as chiro. Bottom line to that is that the world would be no worse if half of all pts and dcs dropped off the edge, never to be seen again.
final points. help1 is a true coolaid drinker. People really do need hypertension, diabetes, hypothyroid meds that big pharm creates. People need modern medicine to patch together the emergent patients. The 300k medical deaths is hyperbole. Furthermore, autism aside, if there were none of the modern vaccines or if the current medical establishment were gone, millions would be dead. How many lives would be lost if chiro ceased to exist? None, and that isn't hyperbole. maybe a few of your loser chiros would be alive and not hanging from a rope in the basement. That isn't hyperbole either.
bottom line: post chiro life is sweet anyone can find a way out of chiro and you aren't a sad loser for leaving. the world would be no worse off without chiro. The pt's can handle the back crackin. Medicare pays them for it now. help1 you are a real slimeball for taking jabs at a nameless guy who might be struggling in a soul-less profession like chiro. When karma eventually gives you the kick in the nuts that is coming your way that you remember this post.
Re: Purpose! « Reply #33 on Oct 19, 2009, 10:01am »
Ebenezer - glad to hear your first year of medical school went well. My husband, after six years as a chiro, just started his second year of medical school and has absolutely NO REGRETS. I, unfortunately, must continue in this profession so we can pay the bills. I am trying to treat as ethically as possible and using more and more modality treatment so that at least I can do something. I graduated 7 years ago and adjusted everyone - now I realise manipulation really has limited use. I too thought the old chiros knew something I didnt..."fake it till you make it".... what the hell was I thinking when I chose this program is beyond me. What's sad is that I am relatively smart - which makes it all the more embarassing. Anyhow, we're still young so hopefully in a few years we'll laugh at the whole "big picture - ADIO - bull"
The "secret" of chiropractic « Reply #34 on Oct 19, 2009, 10:29am »
From NEW SCIENTIST
Placebo effect caught in the act in spinal nerves
* 14:41 16 October 2009 by Ewen Callaway
The placebo effect is not only real; its ability to deaden pain has been pinpointed to cells in the spinal cord. That raises hopes for new ways of treating conditions such as chronic pain.
The researchers who made the discovery scanned the spinal cords of volunteers while applying painful heat to one arm. Then they rubbed a cream onto the arm and told the volunteers that it contained a painkiller – but in fact it had no active ingredient. Even so, the cream made spinal-cord neural activity linked to pain vanish.
"This type of mechanism has been envisioned for over 40 years for placebo analgesia," says Donald Price, a neuroscientist at the University of Florida in Gainesville, who was not involved in the new study. "This study provides the most direct test of this mechanism to date."
Indeed, the biggest obstacle to establishing the spinal cord's role in placebo pain relief was measuring its activity with fMRI scanning, says Falk Eippert, a neuroscientist at the University Medical Centre Hamburg-Eppendorf in Germany, who led the study. Squeezing a scan
FMRI scanning has long been used to image the brain, but the part of the spinal cord that Eippert's team was interested in – the dorsal horn – is minuscule in comparison, and so is harder to image. It also swims around in cerebrospinal fluid, further complicating real-time measurement.
The team's first breakthrough was to squeeze an fMRI signal out of the spinal cord. Then they quickly adapted the technique to study placebo pain relief.
This meant telling 13 volunteers a white lie. They were told that the researchers were testing how effective a painkilling cream was, with an inactive cream as a control on the trial.
In fact, neither cream contained anaesthetic. However, when Eippert's team applied the alleged painkilling cream for the first time, they turned down the intensity of painful heat stimulation to 40 per cent of each volunteer's pain threshold – 46 °C on average. When the team tested the alleged control cream, they kept the temperature set at 80 per cent of the pain threshold – an average of 47 °C.
Because of this "fixing" of the temperatures, the volunteers would think, "'OK, this really seems to work, and it will work when I take it the next time,'" Eippert explains. Feeling the heat
Later, with an fMRI scanner on, the researchers rubbed "control" and "painkiller" creams onto two different spots on each volunteer's left forearm and applied the same level of heat to each spot, 15 times.
The fake "painkiller" cream worked: volunteers said they experienced 26 per cent less pain on the "painkiller"-treated patch of their arm, compared with the "control"-treated area.
Meanwhile, the fMRI scanner witnessed the placebo effect. When skin treated with the "control" cream was heated, an area of the dorsal horn located on the left side of volunteers' lower necks lit up, suggesting increased neural activity there in response to pain. However, this signal disappeared in the "painkiller" trials.
Eippert's team didn't discover what caused this shift. He speculates that higher brain areas involved in buying into the bogus treatment trigger the release of endogenous opioids – chemicals our brain produces that work like opiates and may temper spinal cord activity.
Now that researchers know the neural hallmark of placebo pain relief, they could use it to develop treatments, cognitive or chemical, that take better advantage of belief, Eippert says.
The placebo effect is not only real; its ability to deaden pain has been pinpointed to cells in the spinal cord. That raises hopes for new ways of treating conditions such as chronic pain.
The researchers who made the discovery scanned the spinal cords of volunteers while applying painful heat to one arm. Then they rubbed a cream onto the arm and told the volunteers that it contained a painkiller – but in fact it had no active ingredient. Even so, the cream made spinal-cord neural activity linked to pain vanish.
"This type of mechanism has been envisioned for over 40 years for placebo analgesia," says Donald Price, a neuroscientist at the University of Florida in Gainesville, who was not involved in the new study. "This study provides the most direct test of this mechanism to date."
Indeed, the biggest obstacle to establishing the spinal cord's role in placebo pain relief was measuring its activity with fMRI scanning, says Falk Eippert, a neuroscientist at the University Medical Centre Hamburg-Eppendorf in Germany, who led the study. Squeezing a scan
FMRI scanning has long been used to image the brain, but the part of the spinal cord that Eippert's team was interested in – the dorsal horn – is minuscule in comparison, and so is harder to image. It also swims around in cerebrospinal fluid, further complicating real-time measurement.
The team's first breakthrough was to squeeze an fMRI signal out of the spinal cord. Then they quickly adapted the technique to study placebo pain relief.
This meant telling 13 volunteers a white lie. They were told that the researchers were testing how effective a painkilling cream was, with an inactive cream as a control on the trial.
In fact, neither cream contained anaesthetic. However, when Eippert's team applied the alleged painkilling cream for the first time, they turned down the intensity of painful heat stimulation to 40 per cent of each volunteer's pain threshold – 46 °C on average. When the team tested the alleged control cream, they kept the temperature set at 80 per cent of the pain threshold – an average of 47 °C.
Because of this "fixing" of the temperatures, the volunteers would think, "'OK, this really seems to work, and it will work when I take it the next time,'" Eippert explains. Feeling the heat
Later, with an fMRI scanner on, the researchers rubbed "control" and "painkiller" creams onto two different spots on each volunteer's left forearm and applied the same level of heat to each spot, 15 times.
The fake "painkiller" cream worked: volunteers said they experienced 26 per cent less pain on the "painkiller"-treated patch of their arm, compared with the "control"-treated area.
Meanwhile, the fMRI scanner witnessed the placebo effect. When skin treated with the "control" cream was heated, an area of the dorsal horn located on the left side of volunteers' lower necks lit up, suggesting increased neural activity there in response to pain. However, this signal disappeared in the "painkiller" trials.
Eippert's team didn't discover what caused this shift. He speculates that higher brain areas involved in buying into the bogus treatment trigger the release of endogenous opioids – chemicals our brain produces that work like opiates and may temper spinal cord activity.
Now that researchers know the neural hallmark of placebo pain relief, they could use it to develop treatments, cognitive or chemical, that take better advantage of belief, Eippert says.
Re: Purpose! « Reply #36 on Nov 6, 2009, 10:46pm »
ebenezer, the only "karma" I'm receiving is the kind that comes about after working my ass off and putting it to use helping others. Unfortunately, yours won't be so nice now that you've moved your way over to big pharma, were I'm sure you'll proceed to poison children with vaccinations, pills, potions and other deadly junk and use scare tactics on unknowing parents. Tell them their kids need ritalin and tubes in their ears, while you pad your wallet as well as your new "big brother" Merck's wallet, since he's got you brain washed. More worthless, useless medical garbage that you'll inevitably talk people into thinking that they "need".
Think that one over on your next smoke break, which I'm sure you take, after passing through the Arby's drive through, then try and tell others about "health", since health is all up to your DNA and the right combination of pills, right?
Here's a fact for you: Without useless medical intervention and error(I'm not talking about emergency and trauma related medical care, or genuine birth anomalies that make up a minute portion of the human population and it's necessity, where medicine is suppose to be kept at), 300k people per year would live. That's not hyperbole. And there isn't a vaccination given in this country that saves anyone, people are getting vaccinated for crap that only exists in a test tube or a flu that's in constant change, so a shot is not gonna save your ass to begin with if you have trashed your body for years with biscuits, gravy, Mountain Dew and hours of watching sitcoms, so don't even try that bs. That's the biggest part of the medical "business" and you know it. If you don't, your even dumber than I thought.
And for the record, here's some hyperbole for you, why don't you talk a little more about "Karma" while others talk about "God", then in the same breath, try and talk about "Science" and "Scientific". I love how medical scum 'I want to be a real doctor' like yourself and others try and talk in a condescending 'scientific' tone, then revert to scientific words like god, and karma when it's to your convenience, when your mediocre IQ runs out of anything useful to contribute. I guess some people like yourself occasionally need to be escorted back to the short bus when your through.
Joined: Mar 2004 Gender: Male Posts: 5,896 Location: USA
Re: Purpose! « Reply #37 on Nov 6, 2009, 11:04pm »
I see the chiro indoctrination continues hot and heavy.
>Without useless medical intervention and error(I'm not talking about emergency and trauma related medical care, or genuine birth anomalies that make up a minute portion of the human population and it's necessity, where medicine is suppose to be kept at), 300k people per year would live...And there isn't a vaccination given in this country that saves anyone.
Given my respect for Buddhism I'll skip discussion of karma with those who are biased against it from the start.
"I believe all suffering is caused by ignorance. People inflict pain on others in the selfish pursuit of their happiness or satisfaction..." -Dalai Lama
"In God we trust, all others bring data" -W. Edwards Deming
Joined: May 2006 Gender: Male Posts: 2,181 Location: CA
Re: Purpose! « Reply #38 on Nov 7, 2009, 5:12pm »
Quote:
Tell them their kids need ritalin and tubes in their ears, while you pad your wallet as well as your new "big brother" Merck's wallet, since he's got you brain washed. More worthless, useless medical garbage that you'll inevitably talk people into thinking that they "need".
Think that one over on your next smoke break, which I'm sure you take, after passing through the Arby's drive through, then try and tell others about "health", since health is all up to your DNA and the right combination of pills, right?
Here's a fact for you: Without useless medical intervention and error(I'm not talking about emergency and trauma related medical care, or genuine birth anomalies that make up a minute portion of the human population and it's necessity, where medicine is suppose to be kept at), 300k people per year would live. That's not hyperbole. And there isn't a vaccination given in this country that saves anyone, people are getting vaccinated for crap that only exists in a test tube or a flu that's in constant change, so a shot is not gonna save your ass to begin with if you have trashed your body for years with biscuits, gravy, Mountain Dew and hours of watching sitcoms, so don't even try that bs. That's the biggest part of the medical "business" and you know it. If you don't, your even dumber than I thought.
Help1 has been certified by the National Board of Chiropractic Examiners and has met what Cooperstein describes as minimal competency for the practice of chiropractic.
![[Home]](http://s1.images.proboards.com/menu/home.gif)
![[Help]](http://s1.images.proboards.com/menu/help.gif)
![[Search]](http://s1.images.proboards.com/menu/search.gif)
![[Login]](http://s1.images.proboards.com/menu/login.gif)
![[Register]](http://s1.images.proboards.com/menu/register.gif)
![[Live Chat]](http://s1.images.proboards.com/menu/chat.gif)
![[Search This Thread]](http://s1.images.proboards.com/search2.gif)
![[Send Topic To Friend]](http://s1.images.proboards.com/buttons/sendtopic.gif)
![[Print]](http://s1.images.proboards.com/buttons/print.gif)
Author
Well God will have the last say...but for those who do not know God...he is FAIR and His will... He has made known...in His Word...so there will be no surprise when we stand before Him...and if we chose to not to believe it is not His Word or there is another religion or religion is for babies...whatever...there is truth and there are lies and it is for each of us to decide what we accept as true and what we see to be a lie. In America we have that freedom to make the choice...what we wish to believe is true about God and life after death...and what happens then...so this is what I believe...but as for what is true when it comes to things men say are facts and they pertain to this life...we look to science...and when they confirm things are factual...these are things that can be proven. And that is the authority all doctors are expected to base their decisions on...not their beliefs...and because of this...there are many times a medical doctor hurts because he cannot help a patient...and maybe there are times he wished he could be like those chiros...who have no science...but people are helped...or those who look to other beliefs for help...who supposedly find help by "faith" in God...such as Christian Science and other religions. While I do not know if some feel this way...the vast majority of those who get sick or injured are helped by medical means...and with all they do...there are still many problems that they still cannot help. And they unlike the chiros are able to acquire objective evidence to look to, to determine what is wrong and what to do...and based upon this foundation...scientific evidence...or the lack of it...will come their diagnosis...and whether it is what the patient wants to hear or not hear...the evidence determines what they must report to the patient. And these reports are at times very difficult...both for the patient to hear and for the doctors to give. 
Logged
![[avatar]](http://animals.nationalgeographic.com/staticfiles/NGS/Shared/StaticFiles/animals/images/800/strawberry-poison-dart-frog.jpg)
![[homepage]](http://s1.images.proboards.com/buttons/www_sm.gif)
![[avatar]](http://www.ccffm.net/nerd4.jpg)